: : You cannot understand salvation because human beings lack the communication skills to describe it.And, you was not entirely honest about about trying to attain yourself...where you?HONESTY AND PURITY are absolute REQUIREMENTS in any strugle.: DDN: Well Gabriel, you've just set us back an entire year on this discussion of 'salvation'. According to every other Christian on this
: forum (except YOU), we don't need to be PURE to find Jesus or attain salvation. The whole reason for finding Jesus and getting saved in
: the first place is so that Jesus can MAKE us pure. This point was communicated VERY CLEARLY by Kristin. Its one of the few tenets of christianity I've been able to understand. But now you are completely refuting it by saying that "PURITY" is not only NECESSARY to attain "salvation" but it is an "ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT". Great. Sounds to me like you and Kristin need to communicate with EACH OTHER more than you need to communincate to ME.
: So, on that note, let me ask you: What is "salvation"? If its not the
: attainment of purity, then what is it?
I think (hope) what Gabriel is trying to say is that honesty is a requirement in any STRUGGLE. But I don't think he meant a requirement of "salvation." To be quite honest I'm not quite sure exactlt what he is trying to convey so I can't really second guess his understanding.
I would like to clarify a few things regarding purity. To the human brain the word "purity" is rather pious and downright annoying. But let's look at God's defintion. When the bible speaks of purity in the bible it is never used in regards to our actions rather in regards to our heart. Jesus says "Blessed are the pure in heart." Not "Blessed are those who never have impure thoughts or do impure things." For something to be pure it must be genuine. A diamond can not be pure if it is fake. God desires us to strip away the masks and get real with him and ourselves. We are all sinners and have and will continue to fall short of the glory of God and that is why the gospel is good news.
It is good news because before Jesus came we were under the law. We were judged by EXTERNAL behaviour. The law made it impossible for ANY man or woman to enter into a relationship with God because it was based on OUR attempts at holiness and purification. The whole point of the old testament law was to magnify our deep,desperate need for grace.
When I first started reading the old testament I couldn't grasp it. It just didn't fit in with the new testament. But this is the purpose of the old testament law. The law, with it's commandments were good but impossible to live up to therefor it brought bondage and death because when used as a means of salvation, no one could be saved by it.
The Pharisees were so appauled by Jesus because he hung out with thieves, prostitutes, and tax collecters. These people were so called "impure." But to Jesus these were the ones who cried out to him from the heart. These were the ones who realized they were spiritually poor and needed to be healed of a lifetime of pain, apathy, shame and emtiness. To Jesus, these were "THE PURE IN HEART."
You see Jesus was the ultimate fullfillment of the law. He never came down to abolish it rather he came down to be the solution to it. He died to pay the punishment that the law required and then he rose again sending his spirit to all who would recieve him by faith through grace. "Do not think I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fullfil them." Mt 5:17 "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." Mt 5:20
The righteousness of the Pharisees was a life lived by rules and regulations. The righteousness that surpasses them is the righteousness of what Jesus did on the cross for us.
The reason why the Pharisees couldn't accept him was pride. As long as they had there petty rules and as long as they could be in charge of judging what is acceptable and unacceptable they were comfortable. But there righteousness was self righteousness and there pride and thirst to gain approval by "right" behaviour and actions prevented them from grasping and embracing the freedom of grace.
Grace is when you get something you really don't deserve. Mercy is not getting something you really do deserve. That is why these are the two most common words to describe what Jesus did by taking our place of punishment on the cross. The pharisees would rather strive to act and behave perfectly so that they could remain "SELF RIGHTEOUS" believing that it was there own attempts at so called "purity" that made them worthy. The idea that they would have to stop striving and allow Jesus to justify them was down right insulting.
Our society is filled with Phariseetical attitudes whether your a Christian or not. We live in a world of ungrace where if we don't earn it, we don't want it. Pride and self righteousness is all it is. We judge people by categorizing them by social standing, intelligence, race etc. and then deem them worthy or unworthy to receive our respect, honour or love. Grace goes against our fallen nature.
Jesus was radical not because he tried to tear down the political or social system. He was radical because he preached to a people steeped in unforgiveness, bitterness, judgement and self righteousness a messgage of eternal, abounding grace.
The hardest concept I ever dealt with in my walk with Jesus is grace. There is nothing I can do to make him love me more and nothing I can do to make him love me less. It doesn't matter how many times I sin, or how many times I obey, I am still under the new convenant of his grace. Does this mean I abuse his grace knowing that I'll be forgiven? No. It means that the more I come to know God who loves me more than I can ever grasp with my human heart, and the more I come to understand his grace, I find myself less and less prone to sin because I am operating out of love rather than striving to gain approval. The only thing I can do is to receive this gift of grace. For a person as prideful as I was this was hard to grasp.
Unfortunatly Daddio there are Christians who still strive to gain God's approval by their self righteous actions. They think if they pray a certain amount of times during the day or if they memorize certain passages from the bible, or volunteer for different church activities, that God will somehow love them and bless them more. The narrow road to life Jesus refers to is a road paved by grace. But there's a sign at the beginning of the road saying "All who enter must be willing to lay down there self righteousness and just surrender to God's awsome love. All who enter must learn to simply quit striving and receive an eternal life that they could earn on their own. FAITH required."
The reason so many struggle with the concept of salvation is that it has been presented as the bad news. Go to church, read your bible, be good and God will love you. What a stench this must be to God. Salvation is simple. It requires nothing. Jesus did not die so that through your own strength you could save yourself. HE SAVED YOU. Now all you have to do is accept it, kick back and let His Spirit rock your world!
"For it is by GRACE you have been saved, through faith and this not from yourselves, it is THE GIFT OF GOD--NOT BY WORKS, so that NO ONE CAN BOAST. For we are God's workmanship created 'IN CHRIST JESUS TO DO GOOD WORKS', which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:8-10 (Emphasis mine)
In His love,
Kristin :-)
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