"I am Lazarus come from the dead.
Come back to tell you all, i shall tell you all-...
That is not what i meant at all.
That is not it at all"(T.S. Eliot, Prufrock)
1: It is not a question of justification, it is a question of harm. A utilitarian calculus. Who will in the end suffer more? The birds or the hopi?
2: Understanding hopi culture is necessary if you ever hope them to change peaceably and not cause more harm than it is worth.
3: My defense then is not based upon animals having less feeling than humanity. Although i do think this is so, this was just a throwaway line on my part.
That animals can feel pain i can accept that is one of the basest states of flesh and blood, however to attribute to them deep and meaningful human emotional capacity seems to be overdoing it I do not doubt that animals feel pain or that they can suffer. i was merely sceptical as to an animals possession of deep emotional capacity.
4: Please don't pray for me daddio, it doesn't work, i've tried it before (many years ago). What you get from prayer seems to corresspond strangely with what happens by chance. Odd that.
: This is all very touching. The one major problem with your thesis, which has been pointed out to you several times apparently to no avail, is that some people don't need to "understand hopi culture" to know that torturing other living beings is morally reprehensible. Lots of people do horrible things to each other and to other animals for cultural reasons. That, in and of itself, does not make those activities OK. The catholics burned people at the stake. No amount of time spent studying the catholic bible or hanging out with catholics is going to make burning people alive seem OK to me.
: The only defense I've seen from you or anyone else regarding this point is that humans are the only animals that really "feel" anything. I am at a loss for words for anyone who sincerely believes this kind of blind mindless tripe. If you insist on ignoring biological realities and your own common sense then there's nothing I or anyone is going to be able to say to you to change your mind about things like the animal torture. All I can do is let you go your own seperate way on this subject and feel deeply sorry for you and try to remember to include you (and others like you) in my prayers.
None.
