:MDG: DDN, I never said the Hopi were the ones who killed the buffalo and beavers in great numbers, so let's get that straight. I will do research on those animals and get back to you. As for the eaglet torture, the Hopi site acknowledges that they are "sacrificed" but declines to mention how, apparently. I don't blame them.DDN: I know you didn't say that the Hopis were responsible for the beaver and the buffalo. I mentioned the absence of these subjects in Copenhagen's articles only because it was implied that these subjects would be covered in those articles and they were not. As for the "sacrifice", treating something like a brother all of its life then instantly killing it would be a long way, in MY mind, from torturing it for days on end then burying it alive.
:DDN : No details are given about the sacrifice ritual but, again, its hard to believe that they would torture them to death, as was claimed in the thread below, when they were considered to be "brothers".
:MDG: Would you sacrifice your own brother, never mind how?
DDN: No, that does sound inconsistent. I'll give you that one for now.
:DDN: The other articles paint the warm, intelligent, compassionate, and prophetic picture of the Hopis I am accustomed to.
:MDG: You are "accustomed" to. Says it all (and I'm not trying to be sarcastic here).
DDN: Yes, "accustomed to". When you or anyone else can provide me with something solid and to the contrary I'll modify my views accordingly just as I did when once I was accustomed to hearing about what ignorant savages the native americans and had to modify my views once I was able to get ahold of some literature that wasn't written by rich, racist, white people.
:DDN : So, again, I must ask: What is the source for these claims regarding the torture of eaglets and the mindless destruction of buffalo and beaver populations? So far, it has amounted to nothing more than a rumor posted by MDG.
:MDG: Reporting what was contained in a front-page article in the Los Angeles Times is not rumor-mongering. I will get you that link, if one exists, or failing that, the exact date of the paper so you can go to the library and look it up yourself. Who knows, DDN, your picture of the Hopi as absolute saints may yet be tarnished.
DDN: I hate to be the one that breaks this to ya, but, as far as native Americans are concerned, white society's newspapers are not considered gospel truth anymore more than your average broken land treaty - nor SHOULD they be. I was hoping for a source that was a little more serious than the corporate mainstream media tabloids to confirm the eaglet torture. Can ANYONE produce this for me?
Absolute saints? Of course not. Relative saints? Most definitely; Relative to Europeans settlers that have built entire industries on animal torture and generaly reek unchecked havoc on the enviroment as matter of daily routine.
None.
