: : Who are you to call the Hopi ignorant? Whta do you know about the situation? Who are you to say that their religion and traditions are 'stupid'? If something fails to accord to the standard of the whiteman, does that automatically render it barbaric? : You're full of it. Slowly smothering an eagle engenders the same suffering in the eagle whether done for religious purposes or sheer sadistic kicks. When you look at it from the eagle's point of view, does it really matter why they're tying you up so you can't fly, and then smothering you in corn meal? Get real for a second.
Full of what? An appreciation that western culture is not the be all and end all? That the Hopi have a right to practice their ancient beliefs?
: : As far as i can see YOU are not a member of the Hopi. As far as i can see tehy should be left to govern themselves so far as possible. if they choose to indulge in these religous ceremonies then what of it. I fail to see how it relates to you at all.
: I'm standing up for the animal victims of the Hopi. I'm sorry if you're so clouded with weepy romanticism of the Hopi that you can overlook what they're doing to those eagles.
Well, to the Hopi these animals are not victims, but rather their brothers, being sacrificed to celebrate the return of the gods.
You, oh heaTHEN, may call such practices barbaric, but i fail to see how it is any more barbaric than a nation that leaves its poor to starve or kills its own people in order to administrate justice.
: : I would suggest to you that white men are far more responsible for suffering of animals (enmasse) than any tribe of indians ever will be (you've sited one instance for the hopi; how many could i site for white men, i shudder to think).
: Yes, the white man abuses animals terribly. But hey, that's their culture, man, so how dare you criticize it?
Was i criticsing? or merely drawing to your attention to the fact. Besides, the point being it is a deeply significant part of hopi culture that they have practiced for ages. A middle class american who gets his sexual kicks by torturing small rodents hardly falls into the same class.
: : Well, good for you. I hope you crusade against these 'barbaric' activities the same way you crusade against the hopi (funny i don't see any posts).
: Then you're not bothering to read this chat board. Look around: my main issue is animal rights. And I'll champion the plight of abused animals in any society -- white, black, red, yellow -- where they're being abused. It's not the abusers I care about, it's the abused, and I don't discriminate just because the abuser is a Hopi claiming his religion justifies animal torture.
: : Again, who are you to call them 'ignorant'. Perhaps they consider it necessary. How do you know they are not right? Have you delved into Indian religion so you can categorically announce that their beliefs are false? Or are you just a member of the dominant christian tradition?
: Oh please! When Christians burned black cats because they thought this was what God wanted, did that make it right, or, more to the point with you, did that make it wrong because CHRISTIANS were doing it, and not some tribe? You're attempting to defend the indefensible based on the fact that the oppressors in this case (Hopi) were and are themselves oppressed by others. That is not justification for animal torture.
Look, if christians want to burn cats then i say let em (as long as the motive is pure).
: : You are truly deplorable. Your attitude stinks. To call their culture 'unsophisticated' recalls to me the attitude of early american settlers intent upon 'killing the savages'. Your attitude seems to suggest that you would not give one wit if their entire culture were to be extinguished from the earth and replaced with beef cattle farms. If that is the world you desire then you are truly deserving of my contempt.
: No, YOUR attitude stinks. It is, in fact, racist, in that you are excusing a blatantly cruel act of animal abuse because they are Hopi. Why not hold the Hopi up to the same standard you hold Whites and others up to, that of NOT ABUSING ANIMALS. That's the point here, which you in your weepy, romanticist liberal pandering & racist attitude towards the poor Hopi have missed entirely.
I am excusing an act because it is an act that has existed for many long years and it forms an integral part of what it is to be Hopi. I am not being racist. It is the Hopi's right to act in accordance with their beliefs.
As for claims of relativism, distinguish the statements:
i) X believes A to be true
ii) A is true for X (the relativist thesis)
I merely contend that the Hopi believe (ie believe it to be true) that it is correct to sacrifice eagles to the gods. This may or may not be a mistaken belief. I DO NOT hold that sacrificing eagles is ok just because they are hopi or that it is true for them but false for everybody else.
