Lark: : To the Atheists, Agnostics etc. your beliefs are as much a religion as Christianity. Copenhagen: Oh give me a break. Atheism means complete denial of any metaphysic, so i don't see how it can be religion.
I'm going to have to agree with Lark here. Atheism is literally a belief that no god exists. As such, it is a belief that can never be tested. The defining characteristics proposed for a god include the ability to hide any and all evidence of it's existence. Therefore, the absence of evidence of god's existence is no more an argument against that existence than it is in favor. In short, the scientific tradition of evidential requirements does not apply to the existence or non-existence of a god or gods. To claim that a god does not exist is just as much a claim about things which one can not possibly know as is a claim that "he" does exist.
Agnosticism is the only position in this argumnet that is supported by the evidence, since that evidence is, by any reasonable standard, insufficient.
C: That there is no God can be inferred simply via empirical observation.
Exactly thereverse, actually. Empirical testing does not shed any light on the existence of a creature that is supposed, by all accounts, to be able to alter our perceptions of the universe, including any equipment that we would use to investigate it's existence. This is the paradox of trying to "prove" or disprove the existence of god. If we assume, for the sake of argument, that god exists and has all the abilities ascribed to him, we could point a telescope right at his house and, if he wanted this, we'd see right through him. In fact, any entity that had the powers ascribed to him by most christians would be able to stand right in front of you singing at the top of his lungs, and simultaneously remove your ability to hear or see "him" and then remove your memory of not seeing or hearing. See the problem?
C:That everything seems so complex (and requires an invisible hand to exist) is just a fact derived from our humanocentric point of view.
You're probably right here. The apperance of a world "designed just for us" is probably a result of the fact that we evolved in this world and not another. It seems like the world were made to support creatures like us, simply because it is the world in which creatures that had traits like those we posess were best able to survive and reproduce. Again, this says nothing about the existence or non-exstence of god. We can not investigate that phenomenon using the same techniques that we use to explore our physical surroundings. I repeat, a claim to know what we can't know is insupportable, and that goes for the pro and anti sides both. Religion relies on a belief in that which can not be proved, as does true atheism. Agnosticism is, again, the only position that has empirical support. There is not enough evidence either way (nor can there be) and so there is no way to make an informed decision. This decision must be made on the basis of personal emotional predelictions, if it is to be made at all.
-Floyd
None.
