:
: : :DDN : 2) Where does the bible say “physical action” in reference to terms of salvation? Are you just making things up again?: : McChick: The Bible talks about "deeds" and says that you don't need to do any special good deeds to get into Heaven.
: :
: : DDN:
: : 1) Are you then retracting your comment about "physical actions"?
: : 2) 'What doth the Lord require of thee but to DO JUSTLY and to love mercy and to walk humbly with God.' (Micah 6:8)
: : Do justly? Sounds like good deeds to ME.
McChick: That, my friend, is the OLD testament. Do you not know the difference between the old and the new? The old testament explains the old system, and the new testament is about the new system.
DDN:
1) Just follow this short thread at the top of this room and you'll see that I do understand the difference between the two quite well.
http://www.mcspotlight.org/debate/anything/messages/4054.html
You'll also understand from this thread that either old testament verses like Micah 6:8 are still applicable or the "God" of the bible is a shortsighted mortal who makes promises he can't keep.
2) Assuming that old testament verses like Micah 6:8 are no longer pertinent to getting into heaven, are we then to believe that a person who is unjust, merciless, and arrogant with God gets into heaven for knowing Jesus but a remote "tribal person" who is just, merciful, and walks humbly with god must go to Hell because he never heard of Jesus?
What about the ten commandments? Can I murder, steal, lie, and screw every married woman in a 5 mile radius of my house for 75 years straight and still go to heaven when I die just because I had the good fortune to be born into a christianized culture and hear about jesus?
3) The new testament rambles on endlessly about DOING good.
1 Peter 3:7-11
7. Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
8. Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.
9. Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
10. For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.
11. He must turn from evil and DO GOOD; he must seek peace and pursue it.
Lots of instructions there for doing good: Be considerate, be compassionate, live in harmony, repay evil with blessing, don't speak deceitfuly (i.e. don't lie - part of the "OLD system"), and finally just plain old "DO GOOD".
2 Thessalonians 2:14-17
But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you [2] to be saved through the SANCTIFYING WORK of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.
He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings [3] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope,
encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.
The recipients of this letter (written after the inception of the "new system") are clearly instructed to perform the good deed and "sanctifying work" of spreading the teachings.
James 1:27
"Pure and undefiled relegion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
Luke 18:18-20
18. A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
20. You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' [2]"
I find this example VERY interesting since it appears to be reestablishes the "OLD SYSTEM" as part of the NEW one.
I could go on and on forever, McChick. Just say when. Also, don't forget 1 Timothy 2:12
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; SHE MUST BE SILENT."
(I'm a man, by the way)
