: DDN: But why am I still going to hell if Jesus died for my sins? What did he go to all that trouble for if it still left me with a one way ticket to hell?
You do not have a one way ticket to hell. Jesus has provided us a way to not go to hell. What matters is if you take advantage of the situation.
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: DDN: So, prior to the arrival of Jesus, everybody went to this "hell" place when they died?
This is not the case. Before Jesus came here, people were saved by being good and obeying God's laws. Anyone (Moses for instance) who obeyed the commandments and believed in God and worshipped was saved. This was in the Old Testament times, back in those days, the world was much more wicked than it is now. So God sent his son to show his love for us and anyone who believes in Him shall be saved. Of course the Jews who were alive before Jesus are in heaven.
:Question: If God knew we needed Jesus to avoid eternal damnation and God loves us then why did he let everybody that lived prior to the arrival of Jesus go to hell with no possible escape route?
It was only after the arrival of Jesus that faith in Him is needed
:Did God just suddenly start loving humanity just prior to 2000 B.C.? Did something happen just prior to 2000 B.C. that suddenly made us loveable? If so, what was it? Why were we not lovable prior to 2000 B.C.?
: Also, you say, as many Christians do, that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, but below you have told me what I MUST DO to be saved - acknowledge Jesus, confess, etc. and then I'll be saved, correct? How do you reconcile this apparent contradiction.
It's no contradiction. You cannot save yourself. You must believe in Jesus and he will save you.
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: DDN: Two points to make here:
: 1) Already I am at a loss for what to do. I don't understand this instruction and therefore cannot carry it out. What do you mean by "Lord"? Do you mean "God"? What do you mean by God? And who is Jesus? Is he here? Can I meet him? How am I to come to a belief that Jesus is God if I don't know Jesus or this "God" guy either. How am I to hold the opinion that ANY two things are one in the same if I am not aquainted with either of them?
You can believe Jesus is God because first of all every prophecy in the old testament about the Messiah came true with the birth of Jesus. The old testament was written years before Jesus was born, and these prophets had visions from God about the arrival of the Savior. You can read it for yourself. Read Isiah and the rest of them predict Jesus coming to earth in detail, and flip to the new testament Gospels written after Jesus birth. Every prediction came true. Secondly, Jesus did things no person has ever done. He healed the blind and crippled
with a touch of his hand. He walked on water. He delivered sermons like no one has ever heard before. Hundreds of people witnessed this. Three days after his execution, after spending three days in the grave, 500 people witnessed his ressurection and ascention to heaven. It is recorded in history. These writings were collected to form the new testament of the bible. There is even written evidence other than the bible about his life
: 2) No Shaun, apparently this is not "ALL you have to do". You provide additional instructions as follows:
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: :Shaun: .....Confess to Jesus that you are a sinner and and aknowledge him as the savior of the world, and ask him to save you and cleanse you from sin. You have to mean it with all of your heart though.....
: DDN: Are you saying I have a choice as to whether or not I "mean it with all of my heart" when I say this? I don't know how YOUR heart works, but I don't find that I have any say at all over what is in my heart? The sincerity is either there or it isn't - and, in my case, it simply isn't. Are you suggesting that there is something I can do to make my heart sincere in this regard so that my confession will have the desired effect? (And, if so, wouldn't this be yet another instruction on what one "can do to save themself")
Just like it says in the Bible: believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you will be saved.
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: DDN: But you said we were ALL sinners. Are you now saying that born again christians are NOT sinners?
Born again Christians are forgiven-thier sins are washed away. Why?-because they asked for forgiveness and they believe in Jesus
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: DDN: But you are still a sinner living in this world, thus you are still a "wordly sinner" (albeit a FORGIVEN one), correct? Also, if your sins are now automatically forgiven then no amount of wrong action or sin can keep you out of heaven at this point, correct?
When you become born again your past sins are forgiven, so if you sin again you have to ask for forgiveness again. However, once you are born again your desire is to do God's will, so if you really meant it when you aked for forgiveness you won't be living a sinful lifestyle anymore, although it is totally impossible to become perfect and never again to sin.
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: DDN: But wouldn't I have "eternal life" in hell?
Yes-that is the other option.
:f eternal life is such a wonderful gift all by itself then what difference does it make where I spend it?
Believe me, you wouldn't want eternal life in hell. You would rather never have been born
:Also, I haven't "rejected" anybody. You've asked me to somehow magically force myself to believe a set of statements about two entities (Jesus and Lord) that I have never even had lunch with. I've not rejected them anymore than I have rejected a bowl of soup when I simply ask the waiter what its ingredients are or complain that I have no spoon.
You can either accept Jesus or reject him. You keep telling me since you don't know him, you don't want to believe in him. Of course you don't know him. Nobody knows Jesus untill they have became born again christians. Jesus knows you- he created you then died for you, only to rise again. Pray. And read the Bible, and confess your sins and believe He is the Lord. The fact that people do not know him is what keeps them out of heaven.
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: DDN: I KNOW it is. That's why I contend that the bible is so damned confusing. Pick up a Bible and pray something like "Lord, as I read your word please open my eyes to the truth and my heart to your love. Please help me to understand what you want to tell me through your word" Open up to the new Testament, to the first four chapters of the gospels (my favorite is John)These four books, written by four different people during Jesus life, tell the story from his birth to crucifixion. Most of it is quotes right from Jesus'mouth.
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: DDN: Eh? What difference does it make how you act and live? You're still going to heaven anyway, aren't you? Isn't your born again status enough to secure your place in heaven?
Once you become born again, you won't be drinking and drugging, stealing or cursing. You will always be treating people with respect and love. You'll read the bible daily ect ect ect... If your lifestyle does not change after you became born again, then you probably didn't want to become a Christian in the first place, and the one thing that God gets angry more than anything is a hypocrite. Your Christian status is not a license to sin and do whatever you want. Although we do mess up at times and sin, (and ask for forgiveness) at least we are not going around sinning knowing that we are heaven bound so we can do whatever we want.
:re you now saying that there are certain things you must do throughout your entire life in order to be allowed through the pearly gates?
Not things, thing. You must obey God.
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: :Shaun: ......It says Jesus is coming back.....
: DDN: Ok. So that means he is not HERE right now, correct? If he is not here then how am I supposed to make this confession to him? Cellphone? Email? How am I to receive the "gift" from him? UPS? Federal Express?
God is here. Not in the person form (Jesus) Jesus, the person, is coming back
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: :Shaun: .....He said it himself. I hope you are ready.....
: DDN: Ready for what?
That he is going to return to take us to our eternal destination
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: DDN: I'm sure we all appreciate your concern, but if its so important to save the rest of us wouldn't it be prudent to come up with some instructions for salvation that EVERYONE can understand?
How hard is it to understand? Repent of your sin and believe that He is the Lord. The bible is translated into every language, what is there not to understand?
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: DDN: Maybe they are crystal clear to you, but many people find them to be profoundly UNCLEAR. Can a body of instruction truthfully be labeled as being "CLEAR" when there are as many people who are baffled by them as there are people who completely understand them right away? The Holy Bible is the most complex book I have ever read (and I've read hundreds of books). It ranks dead last on my reading list as far as clarity is concerned. Were you somehow endowed with magical powers of understanding at birth that allowed you to read the entire 1500 page holy bible and not be even a little bit confused?
What do you not understand? I agree- the bible was written thousands of years ago, so some of the language is a little old fashioned and sometimes you have to re read it or ask someone for help. But it is not that hard
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: DDN: Does the Bible say that your name is "Shaun"? No. Does the Bible list the atomic weights of the elements? Does the bible say how old you are in milliseconds at any given point in time? The Bible doesn't say a whole lot of things Shaun that are obviously true. So your conviction seems rather rediculous.
When it comes to spiritual things and the after life, I only believe the bible.
