Dear Doc This was *so* important I thought I'd share it with everyone.
I don't tend to save my messages (I like to retain that "from the hip" feeling) and it was very late at night, so I can't promise that I remember it all accurately. But I do remember that it was with reference to the site of People for the ethical treatment of animals. As I remember (though I may well be wrong) I poked fun at their satelite site "Jesus was a vegetarian" and suggested that it was written by (and I trust this was the right phrase) "people who are a few sandwiches short of a picnic". I believe the evidence for this was argument was represented by the link I so thoughtfully included. If you don't believe me I advise you to go there and read about the leftist vegetarian reading on events such as the feeding of the five thousand. I particularly enjoyed the part where the author admitted that he has no evidence at all, but that he believes it. I may then have become a *little* carried away, but I had just been incensed by their vivesection page as well and naturally felt that a short rant on this subject was not out of the question. I am unfortunately unable to remember whether I put forward a suggestion to stop the mistreatment of microbes, but if I did I apologise whole heartedly. I rounded up with a general comment that I had thought it was a respectable organisation, but didn't believe it any more, and was concerned that this might be applied to the entire vegetarian movement. Which could be construed as "pointed and pointlessly offensive".
But hey McSpotlight probaly gets a load of crap mail from people like me all the time, and I'm not one to hold grudges, much ;)
My upset really was at the PETA question and answer section on vivesection, I'm afraid you just got the rant. It pisses me off when it is suggested that a)vivesection has got us nowhere b)vivesection is now unnecessary c)all scientists are evil and cruel until they renounce vivesection. Vivesection has been enormously important I'm afraid. Herbalism got us so far, but the generation of drugs beginning to enter the market now has come directly from a greater understanding of physiology brought primarily through animal experiments. And even the cell experiments that people like PETA would like done have to come for an animal source. Another argument used is that things aren't the same in animals and man. True, but allow me to indulge myself with an analogy from physics: there are situations when modelling requires generalisation with a square, and other occasions when modelling requires generalisation with a circle. Neither fully represents the object, but both enable a greater understanding. Thus with animal models; they do not act the same as in man, but the allow a greater understanding to be reached.
As for scientists being evil, well I know white is the colour of death and evil in some eastern cultures, but really to believe that scientists are very different from anyone else is merely demonisation, something that makes hatred a much easier thing (as I think a lot of the postings on fascism elsewhere on this page have already said). Once you demonise scientists it's easier to gather outside thier house and threaten them, or send them mail bombs, and that's not very nice
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McSpotlight: Demonising anyone is bad in my book. Speaking as a scientific person, anyway...
