: My point in these discussions is not the pure application of Marxism or any other ideal. It is only your lack of any ability to ascribe any moral justification to the opposistion of Soviet imperialism in southeast Asia, central America, or anywhere else.But, as I said, you actually cannot *proove* that all indiginous leftist movmeents were in fact controlled from Moscow, certainly not after '56 and the disintergartion of the Comintern. Chile is the prima facia example.
Further, isn't your argument really thus: the infamous argument by dirty hands- used so often during teh british Empire (Orwell: 'if we leave India, Japan will take it, and be even worse off.'). in other words, if we don't establish our empire, the other empire will. Does Soviet imperialism justify US imperialism? Why didn't the US fight Communism in Africa? Why did it it stick to its *own* spheres of influence?
: Will you admit that the Soviets were imperialists and have had a major influence in every one of the proliferating ventures of communism (or whatever collectivist expression you wish to use)?
What do you mean influence- in many cases the influence amounted to inspriation, others it amounted to an imperialist rival of the US Empire being opposed by certain movements (Cuba specifically, turbning against the US meant necessary moving *into* the Soviet Orbit). To say that the Russians controlled every indiginous rights, ever land rights or civil rights movement would be neigh on impossible.
:If the "communist" tag doesn't suite you can you at least allow that the U.S. had a duty to stop "Soviet imperialism" and that cause could be considered moral?
Duty, on what basis, under which internatiuonal Law? The UN charter only admits war as legitimate only for Self-defence, or with the sanction of the Security Council. the US is the most profligate user of the Secuirity Council Veto.
Let me try it this way- I live in a Small US city, my local Mafia boss in Don Nasty. Now, he is known to be kind to small children, beats up racists, and stops the wrong sort of Drug Dealer from patrolling our streets (not near schools and that) Don Evillo owns the patch next to his, would you consider it right for Don Nasty to stop the expansionististic tendancies of Don Evillo? WOuld you consider Don Nasty's treatment of rapists moral, especially if it turned out that he was actually protecting the whores he keeps?
:The Black Book documents the depravity that was U.S.S.R. policy of the 50's and 60's. To have not put up a hand to stop it could have been to allow the world to have been enveloped by it.
Most of the murders that occurred in that book happened in the 30's, just before the US allied itself with the USSRbin WWII- so much for morals. Further, you cannot proove that all those revolts were controlled by Moscow, many weren't, many simply, as with Cuba, allied themselves with the opposition to America.
:Argue to that failure if you must but allow that there are men who die nobly. Please allow that there are those who see and know what is happening in this world more than you or I and that perhaps, just perhaps they are motivated by their responsibility to oath and honor.
As I said before, the troops on the ground might well have beleved the shit they were fed, but the policy planners, the Foriegn Office (State Department, sorry) knew damn well what they were about.
: And if a man lays his life down for that he desrves honor because that is good.
Oh, please lay of the Dulce et Decorum crap- they may well think they are serving a noble cause, all wars are fought for a noble cause, all enemies are always the biggest bunch of villains on earth- otherwise our masters couldn't get us to fight for their interests. They don't go to war over principles, they go over genuine threats to their inerests- the Domino theory suggested that western Capital would lose out were the Pac-Rim to rise up in revolt, hence the US fought and won in Vietnam. Gambia, the Seychelles, Ethiopia- they wren't part of teh US orbit.
America was always the more powerful of the two imperial Camps, Russia was never a threat.
None.
