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: : : Moreover it was Farinata who first stated that races are different species, I said no such thing. See below.
: : Find me a post anywhere on this list where Farinata, I, or anyone else actually said that. I dare you. Just link your response to that post and get it over with. I know that you can not do this because none of us have ever made that assertion.
: In "Try taking your hands off your eyes..." (April 26, 1999) Farinata said: "Yes it is. In fact, it's what speciation is all about, according to the sciences. The point at which two similar races can no longer interbreed is when they become separate species; thus, the above is a valid example."
That is *not* to say that races are different species; in fact, it's quite the opposite.
If races can interbreed, they are *not* different species. Thus, human races are not different species, as any one human can breed with any other human.
If there is no way of producing viable and fertile offspring, then the two similar lifeforms are different species.
And the point at which this change happens is called speciation. Before that, they are not different species. Afterwards, they are.
: That's fairly clear to me. I read her to say that one race will not be able to breed with another race if they remain isolated long enough. She even gave the Martian example a few posts later to reinforce this view. To which I would say, extreme rubbish!
If a group of one species remains isolated long enough, then they will mutate until they can no longer interbreed with the original species. This has been observed in the real world.
You might say it's rubbish, but can you back up your claims; or are you just dismissing it from a position of ignorance (as per usual)?
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: : : Now both you and Farinata confirm that these chaps such as Neanderthalis are not related to us in any way.
: : False. I have explicitly stated that neandertals are not our direct ancestors. My cousin is also not my ancestor. This does not mean that we do not share common descent. In fact, all life on this planet appears to be related, some more distantly, some closer. This is true of extinct species as well as extant ones.
: I've visited the museum in the Neandertal valley near Dusseldorf. They have a "Neandertal" maniquin smartly dressed up in a business suit. Now, hasn't that been my point all along, that there is less than truth in advertising going on here. After all this is 1999 not 1960 and the deceptive exhibit (ie. that he is somehow our recent ancestor) still stands. You have admitted this is not true yourself above.
That's not the point of it; the point is to demonstrate our genetic similarity to the Neanderthal not that they are our ancestor. They aren't; Neanderthals are an evolutionary dead end; they died out, leaving no descendants. The exhibit you mentioned is a "what if...?" display - to show how similar Homo sapiens neanderthalis was to Homo sapiens sapiens.
Farinata.
(Farinata? _she_?. If you knew your Dante, you'd recognize my pseudonym; which I chose especially for the purpose of debating religious issues; Farinata degli Uberti (d. 1264) was a nobleman who led the Ghibelline faction (pro-state party of the Holy Roman Empire) which defeated the Guelphs (pro-church party of the Holy Roman Empire) in 1248 and 1260.)
None.
