: Fine, that is easy for you to say have you been driven from your home and lost memebers of your immediate family? Your opinion might be a bit different then.Indeed, it would be, specifically if I were Timorese, Loatician, Palestinian, Kurdish, Columbian...etc. etc.
: War is unpopular, that's a good thing, people who argue that a just war is going on are going to unpopular too, which isnt a good thing, it has absolutely nothing to do with rationality, it is to do with the types of things people immediately bring to mind when they hear the word WAR.
: It's not so bad here but I've known people who the minute anyone talks about direct action to try and prevent something, war being this on a major scale, they pull out pictures of people in Vietnam or some where with thier inards blown out and that's meant to put a seal on whole debate.
Ah, but I have done no such thing, I have raised some very specific counter points, again:
1:NATO history suggests that its general direction of action does not tend towards humaitarian intervention.
2:NATO policy currently does not suggest it is inclined to humitarian intervention in other parts of the world.
3:No matter what your war aims may be, its the NATO command that is in charge of the war effort, and that is setting the targets and objectives- and it is *this* we must examine, not what we would like to see happening over there.
4:War is very expensive, and our penny pinching masters don't spend money unless they need to for their interests.
5:That the military effort is demonstrably not geared towards assisting the Kosovarr Albanians.
6:That the military effort is in clear breech of international law, seeimgly intentionally so.
Where, in that list, is an emotive appeal to the inevitable deaths?
(BTW- was I alone in thinking that Blair's comments after the bombing of the convoy were earrily reminiscent of the IRA's after Inniskillen (sp?)).
: Cheers RD I'm glad to know I'm not a "true" socialist, a "true" Libertarian or a "true" liberal, what would that make me? Ah, yes a big evil militaristic right-winger right? This is all very rational mate.
Did I say that? No, I didn't, you seem very defensive sometimes man, I called you a liberal, thats all. I emant it, your stance is very liberal.
: I give an explanation of how we have got here, EG a dictator is throwing his weight around, and the potential motivations and interests of those involved, EG armed insurrgents are fighting to prevent their ethnic distruction and the ravaging of all they hold dear following the disregarding of the democratic wishes (they held elections) of their population and other democracies wont stand by and let this happen having learned from appeasement in the past.
But this could all have been settled by talks long ago, if Kosovo had been included at Dayton, if the US had encouraged democratic elements in Serbia, if they had listened to the peaceful Kosovar movement...
: Not opposing dictatorship not very libertarian of your.
Of course I opose dictators, but I see not point in backing one tyrant against another, I want to see Milosovich overthrown, as much as I want to see Clinton and Blair overthrown.
: What?!! Just because this is a popular issue with politicians it's definitely suspect? Some people are obviously paranoid. Why is the logic bad for it's association with politicians?
No, the logic is bad because its unsound, the second premis is untrue, we must not do soething, we must do teh right thing, however, politicians feel the need to be seen to do something, and may act without finding the right/correct course of action. What I term polliticians logic is precisely that- teh logic of polliticians, and what they use to justify bad policy, or to make themselves look good. We must use proper logic.
: I think this is a case of "four legs good, two legs bad" dogma.
Really, I seem to recall persistantly putting forwrd reasoned objections to the war...
: And what would the ever so wiser solution be? Behave diplomatically while people get executed? Christ the left bitches when the governments do nothing and accuses them of being without morality, then they do the same when they do do something.
I would prefer consistancy- if America and Britain were to stop arming dictatorships, stop giving aid to brutal regimes, stop backing murderous groups the world over, ten, and only then, would I start listening to their humaitarian protestations. further, look at teh logic again:
1:War in Kosovo is terrible.
2:We must do the right thing to solve that situation.
3;But what is teh right thing.
So far, I don't think they ahve been following the right policy, nor, and it appears that Geofrey Robinson told John Humphreis that the war was never about helping the Kosovers, but 'degrading teh Serbian war machine', which is very different.
: Yes fascinating if your hot for conspiracies.
Why, why is a public statement of American policy hot for conspiracy theories, it gives us a better understanding of their aims and motivations than the standard media does.
