: : What will never be proven is whether a 'god' exists. : You'll find out soon enough. Jesus is coming back and everybody will face judgement, you included
Gee, that reminds me of something...let me try to think waht it was...ah yes thats right all those books in the bible that say how god is coming back SOON. Let me say that again in case you did not hear it...THE BIBLE WHICH WAS WRITTEN AROUND 2000 YEARS AGO SAID JESUS IS COMING BACK SOON! I HARDLY THINK THAT 2000 YEARS FITS THE AMBIT OF THE WORD 'SOON'!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: :However i think there is a plethora of evidence to suggest that christianity is the biggest bunch of bullshit ever served. Just look at history for the evidence:
: : 1) The 12 testaments written by a pharisee in 100 BC that basically contain the substance of the gospels. Guess this makes the 'son of god' a plagiarist.
: What are you even talking about there? The old testament was written before Jesus birth, the New testament during and just after his life
AND the 12 testaments were written in around 100 BC by a pharisee and the gospels are closely modeled on these works. Allow me to indulge in an excerpt from one of my previous posts:
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"Consider also that what Jesus taught may have in fact been a derivative from the writings of a pharisee (!! didn't the early christiaNS HATE 'EM?!!). The work that i refer to is called 'The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs' and was written between 109 and 107 BC.
One commentator (Rev Dr R.H. Charles) suggests that many of the passages in the gospels exhibit traces of this text and that 'St Paul seems to have used the book as a vade mecum'.
Consider the following passage, which Rev Dr Charles believe christ must have been familiar with:
"Love ye one another from the heart; and if a man sin against thee, speak peaceably to him, and in thy soul hold not guile; and if he repent and confess, forgive him. But if he deny it, do not get into a passion with him, lest catching the poison from thee he takes to swearing and so then sin doubly...And if he be shameless and persist in wrongdoing, even so forgive him from the heart, and leave to God the avenging'.
The testaments of the 12 also contain:
"Love the lord and love your neighbour"; "Love the lord through all your life, and one another with a true heart"; "I love the lord; likewise also everyman with all my heart"; Compare these with Matthew xxii, 37-39.
The pharisee author of this work also repudiates all hatred:
"Anger is blindness, and does not suffer one to see the face of any man with truth"; "Hatred, therefore is evil; for it constantly mateth with lying"
The author of the testament also holds that not only the jews, but all the gentiles will be saved."
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: : 2) There are in fact around 50 gospels. The fact that 4 were chosen is based upon the whims of the founding fathers. A true historical anaylsis cannot deny a treatment of these texts also.
: Are you talking about the scripture found way after the Bible was assembled? The Bible is a collection of different books, many old scripture was found after the bible was put together, they are even being found recently
Good, so you agree the bible could not be considered 'divinely inspired' and its contents are the result of the whims of some priests in AD 330?
: : 3) The old and new testaments contain FUNDAMENTAL INCONSISTENCIES
: Yeah right thats what every non-christian says, but you really shouldn't critisize something you really know nothing about.
How do you know i know nothing about it? Indeed i can turn this argumetn back on you, for by your own argumewnt you should not criticize me for attacking biblical consistency when YOU know NOTHING ABOUT the depth of my biblical knowledge.
Besides a moron can see that the god of the old testament has fundamentally different values from the god of the new testament. that they are in fact not the same god is i think is an easy conclusion to draw.
Richard Dawkins:
"The God of the Old Testament himself, with his pitilessly vengeful jealousy, his racism, sexism, and terrifying bloodlust, will not be adopted as a literal role model by anybody you or I would wish to know."
: : 4) It was often said to me in days gone by that there was 'more proof for jesus as son of god than there was for julius caesar'. What a preposterous lie. There is a gobsmacking pile of evidence for caesar...one needs only look at the historical records of roman law.
: No one ever said that Julius Ceaser never existed! I know Ceaser lived for the same reason I know Jesus lived, scripture written back in those days support the evedince that both existed. Even hard core athiests at least believe that Jesus did exist.
I was merely referring to a favorite christian argument that there was more proof for the existence and deeds of jesus than for julius caesar. As a piece of propaganda it is used to convince people of the probabilities of jesus etc... I find the argument unconvincing given the plethora of what is written on Caesar
: : 5) Besides this there is also the FACT that early christians loved to BURN BOOKS that did not accord with their beliefs. Thus the only remaining evidence of a treatise by celsus that systematically set out to show jesus was not the messiah exists only in the form of an unconvincing refutation written by a christian 'scholar'.
: The early Romans also burned Christian literature, killed christians and did everything they could to stop the spread of the gospel. But even though Christians were the extreme minority at the time, Christianity survived.
Yes, but the christians actually burned quality literature, not religous superstition. Christianity only survived becuase justinian decided it would be prudent to convert (Not that HE was a particulary good christian...)
: : 6) The romans had a noted love for legend, many of the stories about their foundations are accepted to be myths created by writers...why should christianity be any different.
: Because it's not a myth.
Rubbish i think we can view the ressurection as a perfctly fine myth.
: : 7) There are many different religions in the world. These religions have developed in differing cultural contexts. This suggests that religion is contingent upon culture and is not in fact some sort of truth. If the christian god were real, then i would expect him to have manifested himself all over the world, not just to a select bunch.
: Christianity is the biggest religion in the world. There are over 2 billion Christians all over the world. They are in every country and culture. Even though non-Christians outnumber believers by almost 4 to 1, nothing you can do will ever stop the spread of the gospel. It didn't back in the days when there were much fewer Christians, and it won't now
I think the numbers are about 1.9 billion christians and in second place we have ISlam with 1.1 billion.
Thats not too bad for the muslims really, considering they are the FASTEST GROWING religion in the world today and the fact that they only caminto existence in AD 700 when the christians had already taken root in rome.
I mean let us face it the only reason christianity has spread as it has is because it was the religion of the roman empire. BIG SURPRISE tha6t it spread, given that christianity is innately a religion that requires believers to spread it (ahh why do i think of the plague?) and that many pagan religions are less organised and do not have the 'missionary' element.
I mean i don't see any people becoming christians until after they have been indoctrinated (sorry i mean 'shown the light') do you?
: : 8) Christians are often fond of appealing to subjective experience: ie 'i know god is real because i felt him...'. This knowledge claim would be just as valid for any other 'super entity' as it would be for christianity. So if a christian weants to claim 'knowledge by revelation', then jews, buddists, muslims, etc are just as justified in claiming it. (Not that i would even consider it knowledge).
: 9) There are clear errors in the new testament. eg Paul's implied blessing of slavery.
: Haha! Another example of how non-believers can be so quick to make fun of a passage of the bible they know nothing about! I know the verse you are talking about and it does not support slavery. If you care to post it here (because I don't feel like looking it up right now; although I'm pretty sure it is in either 1Thessalonians or Corinthians) I'll tell you what it really says. Are you forgetting that is was the Christians and church leaders who wanted to put an end to slavery in the US and finally brought it about?
YeaH, I gotta go now, but i will find that passage, so you can attempt to write an apology for it.
Big whoop that there were some christians who tried to abolish slavery. Recall the roman empire had an entire politcal system based around slavery and yet they were supposedly a chgristian society.
Guess those christians who were involved in the anti-slavery movt hadn't rread their bibles properly.
Sorry if i have been a bit brief at times but i don;lt have time right now to offer fully indexed essays...
None.
