Day 131 - 06 Jun 95 - Page 54

     
     1        have to look at the accidents that are occurring?
     2        A.  Yes.
     3
     4   Q.   In order to eliminate them?
     5        A.  In other words, what you have to do is observe what
     6        people are doing and what happens and what is actually
     7        happening at any one time.
     8
     9   Q.   Would you accept that, for the rule of thumb, somewhere
    10        between a rate of 10 and 60, a factor of 10 and 60, would
    11        apply to McDonald's in terms of accidents?
    12        A.  No, I would not.  I would need to do research before
    13        I could make that sort of assumption.  I have no problem
    14        with you assuming it, but I would need more evidence to
    15        make that assumption.
    16
    17   Q.   So, for example, slips would be a particularly good example
    18        where there may be dozens of slips a day of which only one
    19        resulted in an injury that goes into the injury book?
    20        A.  Almost certainly would be, yes.
    21
    22   Q.   An accident that does not result in injury can still result
    23        in stress: you feel you nearly put your hand on a fry vat
    24        or nearly banged your head, or something?
    25        A.  There is an instantaneous reaction, but I would not
    26        call that stress.
    27
    28   Q.   While we are on the subject of this book, if we go to
    29        page 9 ---
    30        A.  Yes.
    31
    32   Q.   -- in red in the middle of page 9:
    33
    34        "Underlying belief.  The majority of accidents and
    35        incidents are not caused by 'careless workers', but by
    36        failures in control (either within the organisation or
    37        within the particular job), which are the responsibility of
    38        management."
    39
    40        Would you accept that applies that to McDonald's as much as
         any other company?
    42        A.  It applies generally throughout industry.
    43
    44   Q.   Would you agree, on page 10, that "health and safety is a
    45        management responsibility of equal importance to production
    46        and quality"?
    47        A.  Yes, I would.
    48
    49   Q.   Would you agree that, further down the page, "all
    50        accidents, ill health and incidents are preventable"? 
    51        A.  Yes, I would.  If you look at any individual accident, 
    52        it is always preventable.  If, however, you say, "And 
    53        therefore, it is an obtainable a goal to say we are going
    54        to have zero accidents", I would say that is not
    55        obtainable.  But if you look at any one individual
    56        accident, yes, of course it is preventable.
    57
    58   Q.   Going on to page 42 -----
    59        A.  Yes.
    60