Day 131 - 06 Jun 95 - Page 33

     
     1   Q.   Then you write:  "In addition, McDonald's work centrally
     2        with Barnet to review their policies."  What does that
     3        convey to us?
     4        A.  It means that McDonald's, as a central organisation,
     5        are running their systems past an environmental health
     6        department.  So it is not just left to individual
     7        authorities to enforce on a one-off restaurant basis, but
     8        the whole system is being continually monitored by a
     9        central authority.  It is a new concept called a Lead
    10        Authority Concept, that has been pioneered over the past
    11        few years.  It is to try and help national firms have some
    12        sort of consistency enforcement, so they know that if they
    13        are introducing new equipment or a new system, their local
    14        authority may say, "Yes, we feel that is absolutely right",
    15        and then they would normally expect other local authorities
    16        to agree to that interpretation of the legislation.
    17
    18   Q.   Looked at from the point of view (which is after all
    19        ultimately what this is all about) of the employees'
    20        safety, do you think that this system, this new system,
         works?
    22        A.  I think is it very effective, yes.  Certainly, I have
    23        talked to the Barnet people, and they are very positive.
    24        It is very helpful, yes.
    25
    26   Q.   Page 17, under "Robert Chapman", the sad case of
    27        Mark Hopkins?
    28        A.  Yes.
    29
    30   Q.   Two questions arising out of this.  Have you read
    31        Mr. Shirkie's report, the EHOs report, into what happened?
    32        A.  Yes.
    33
    34   Q.   Were you, yourself, in any way involved in the
    35        investigation of -----
    36        A.  I was not involved in the investigation.  I was
    37        notified immediately it happened, and I talked to
    38        Jill Barnes about it.
    39
    40   Q.   First of all, your (i) ---
         A.  Yes.
    42
    43   Q.   -- there appears to be a suggestion -- I am not quite sure
    44        at the moment where it came from -- that an insulated
    45        handle was missing from a piece of machinery which earthed,
    46        effectively, Mark Hopkins?
    47        A.  Yes.
    48
    49   Q.   What about an insulated handle on a piece of equipment;
    50        what difference might it have made if that handle had been 
    51        present -- assuming it was not? 
    52        A.  I am not quite sure where the description "insulated 
    53        handle" comes from.  You do not put a handle on a piece of
    54        electrical equipment to insulate it.  If the equipment is
    55        live, you are going to come into contact with it in one
    56        way, shape or form, in any case.  A handle is essentially
    57        put there to help you control the machine, in the same way
    58        that you would have rubber grips on your lawnmower at
    59        home:  it is not to insulate you in case there is a short;
    60        it is purely and simply to help you direct the lawnmower.