Day 109 - 28 Mar 95 - Page 10

     
     1   Q.   -- deciding whether -----
     2        A.  -- yes, because if it is not a cardiac arrest at
     3        stunning, then it is very, very important, of course, that
     4        not long enough elapses for the bird to regain
     5        consciousness.  This is the thing that must not be allowed
     6        to happen under the Humane Slaughter Law.  So, that period
     7        is of great importance and, as you say, it was not
     8        mentioned.
     9
    10   Q.   What is your view of the company not complying with the
    11        Codes of Practice in relation to slaughter in terms of
    12        either using stun kill or cutting both carotid arteries?
    13        A.  Well, I think it is a very serious matter because the
    14        system used at Sun Valley does seem to be open to a great
    15        many mistakes and, of course, if these were proved at any
    16        point, the fact that they were not taking any notice of the
    17        Codes of Practice would go against them in a court of law
    18        very badly, so I think it is a serious matter.
    19
    20   Q.   So, it is not actually an offence to not comply with the
         Codes of Practice?
    22        A.  No, it is not, no.
    23
    24   Q.   Is that something that is taken into consideration?
    25        A.  Yes, if an offence -- if they are accused of an offence
    26        and then found to be going against the codes, then it goes
    27        against them in court.
    28
    29   Q.   What is the general view of welfarists about the preferred
    30        method for killing poultry?
    31        A.  Well, I think the consensus of opinion is that 120
    32        milliamps is likely to cause cardiac arrest in almost all
    33        the birds and, therefore, this is desirable and there have
    34        been companies, processing plants, using this who supply
    35        well-known supermarkets and Harrods, and for 10 years with
    36        no complaints of carcass -- I mean, the only reason not to
    37        induce cardiac arrest is carcass quality being spoiled, and
    38        some people claim that this is the case.  But, as far as I
    39        have understood it, most people or many scientists, such as
    40        Dr. Gregory and, for instance, the RSPCA and other bodies,
         definitely recommend 120 milliamps as being the most humane
    42        method because it induces cardiac arrest in most birds,
    43        almost all birds.
    44
    45   Q.   So the preferred method is the cardiac arrest, the stun
    46        kill?
    47        A.  Yes, the stun kill.
    48
    49   Q.   If a company was using a stunning current of 25 amps AC
    50        current, is that something that would give you cause for 
    51        concern? 
    52        A.  Well, I find it an amazing idea, but it is so far below 
    53        any recommendation -- as Dr. Gregory said in one of his
    54        papers, it should never be below 75 milliamps, that was a
    55        sort of absolute rock bottom, so -- did you say 25?
    56
    57   Q.   Yes.
    58        A.  That seems to be totally unacceptable and very
    59        surprising.
    60