Day 100 - 09 Mar 95 - Page 11

     
     1   MS. STEEL:  What is the phosphatase test?  Can you just explain
     2        that briefly?
     3        A.  Yes, it is an enzyme which is denatured around the
     4        cooking temperatures, around 70 degrees Centigrade.
     5
     6   Q.   How long does that have to be cooked before it becomes
     7        denatured?
     8        A.  Well, that is not totally clear in meat products.  It
     9        is used in the dairy industry to assess whether
    10        pasteurisation has been effective or not.  It is a very
    11        rapid test to see -- it is about a five or 10 minute test
    12         -- whether or not the milk has been pasteurized
    13        correctly.  It is a lot quicker than doing microbiological
    14        counts.  That has been transferred across to meat and it
    15        is, again I say it is only used as an indicator, it is not
    16        a definite, but if you do find positive activity there,
    17        then it would strongly suggest that the product had not
    18        been cooked.
    19
    20   Q.   Had not or had?
         A.  Had not.  If it was still active, then it had not been
    22        cooked.
    23
    24   Q.   So none of these tests are really definitive; they just
    25        give you an indication?
    26        A.  The presence of Salmonella would tell you whether or
    27        not the product has been cooked, providing there had been
    28        no cross-contamination after the event.
    29
    30   Q.   That would depend, would it not, because there are 25 per
    31        cent of products that have Salmonella on them?
    32        A.  That is right.
    33
    34   Q.   So the other 75 would not be any use as an indicator, would
    35        it?
    36        A.  That is true, yes.
    37
    38   Q.   If you do not have the burger, whatever type, the chicken
    39        or the beefburger, do you carry out any investigations at
    40        the store, for example?
         A.  Personally, I would not carry out those
    42        investigations.  That would be down to other departments
    43        that look after the in-store operation.  As I said
    44        yesterday, my responsibility, really, is to the back door
    45        of the restaurants.  But there is certainly liaison.  The
    46        reporting system that we mentioned does not only come
    47        through to my department.  In fact, the first port of call,
    48        as it were, where they are logged on to the computer is in
    49        a different department.
    50 
    51   Q.   What department is that logged into then? 
    52        A.  The Customer Services Department. 
    53
    54   Q.   The Customer Services Department log all the types of
    55        complaints, including foreign objects and things like that?
    56        A.  Every, yes, every complaint, yes.
    57
    58   Q.   Do you get about the same amount of complaints about
    59        under-cooking as you do about foreign objects?
    60        A.  No.