: Hello folks:
: I've been arguing with Mike Sprout over at the "McDonald's" section and while we accuse each other of "whining" we're actually typing at each with much wrath and fury.Now I take the position that capitalism must and will end but that unfortunately it may just suck us under while it sinks.I'm not vegetarian even though I have been at times both by choice and not by choice.Now to sum up this first paragraph I feel it should be moved to this section due to the nature of the argument.: MS: Capitalism is fine by me. In fact I strongly disagree with all the whining here about the poor pay and treatment of McDonald's
: workers.While no doubt they have many low quality managers owing to the low wages they pay.Personally, I think the minimum wage should be LOWERED. Most kids today have far too much money anyway.I think people should do what they want-until it starts to hurt someone else.
: Qx: Well,Mike. Capitalism isn't fine by me and there's lots of reasons why. One of them is exhibited by the policies of (your hero?) Mike Harris and the Ontario provincial government towards working folks.
: Are you one of them ? Now the part about the minimum wage being lowered is a bit on the side of saying that perhaps the maximum wage should be lowered also to equal the balance. Can you agree? The money that McDonald's CEOs take home is far more than they earn so if that's done along with your idea about "most kids today have far too much money anyway" then perhaps we could lower the amount of loonies and toonies in circulation and perhaps people will do what they want-until it starts to hurt somebody else.Get my drift?
: MS: The meat industry, as the biggest threat to the global environment
: (after the human population) harms us all. Smoke a cigarette (as long as you're not blowing it in someones face),while stupid, is fine by me. People who choose to eat meat are harming the earth for us all.
: Qx: The meat industry may be bad but it is also intrinsically a part of the capitalistic system that you feel is so fine with you.Can't you see
: the connection ? Perhaps it's the way cattle operations operate and the health standards which are a product of big business interference
: in maintaining quality cattle raising and meat inspection. There's a history there that you seem to be ignoring.
: MS: People who choose to eat meat are harming the earth for us all.
: Qx: I guess that includes the Inuit (Eskimo) people who live in the polar regions of the planet and who have eaten red meat for thousands of years. I explained that once to a bunch of Hare Krsna devotees who
: had to turn away from that truth or face a paradigm shift that challenged their adopted worldviews.The problem behind all this is that Inuit are eating meat (from sources such as seal)that is proven to have traces of PCBs in it and it has also entered their systems. I don't fault them for eating red meat. At least they know the real thing when they see it unlike the regular supermarket shopper or even some self-righteous vegans and vegetarians I have known personally. For sentimental reasons I remember Krsna devotees telling me how they really were appalled at the snobbish arrogance of many vegans and vegetarians.
: MS: As for all your digs at Canada.(Qx:I think I'll die laughing.)
: For two years in a row the UN has identified Canada as having the
: HIGHEST quality of life anywhere on EARTH.
: Qx: And you believe that kind of corporate media hooplah as the truth?
: The UN doesn't live in Canada Mike. I saw the same thing on the tube and I still don't believe it when the total sum is taken into account.
: They use the usual economic statistics that don't take into account the environmental degradation,the economic hardship of single parent families, the incredibly horrible conditions of the First Nations peoples (I'm one of them), etc.,and cover it up with a glossy and cheesy face that basically reflects what the corporate elite want to be made public.
: MS:Personally, I live in Kingston, Ontario (last year picked as one of the top % cities in Canada by a national magazine) and our air quality is as good as anywhere on earth. In comparison to most large cities in the world, Toronto is a lot closer to being the best than the worst.
: Qx: What magazine did you pick that out of ? MacLean's? I thought that should be a toothpaste (capitalistically speaking of course). If you got a copy of Briarpatch or THIS magazine then maybe you wouldn't have so many selective blind spots about Canada. After you get through breathing the air tell us about the tap water.
Perhaps you saw the recently released (Canadian) study that showed for every .50 increase in the minimum wage, there is a 1 percentage point decrease in school enrolment participation by 16 and 17 year olds. Increasing the attraction of work vs. school now dooms them to low wages for life. As well, clearly higher minimum wages are a barrier to employment growth. One need only compare the U.S.(and sub 5% unemployed) to the European model (particularly countries like France). Whose to say McDonalds' CEO takes home far more than he earns? Shareholders always have the option of removing management if they feel they arn't getting their moneys' worth. Interestingly, most of the shares of multinatioanl companies you people whine about are held by the pension funds of the working people you aim to protect from them.
Yes I support Harris. He is doing a great job trying to turn around our disaterous expirament with the socialist Rae government. Hopefully we will soon see similar results to Alberta. What policies towards working folks don't you like? Surely you can't be upset with the government trying to bring the wages of overpaid teachers into line.
Sorry, I don't see any conflict between advocating a vegetarian lifestyle and being happy with a capitalistic economic system. I don't want meat outlawed, but will continue to encourage individuals to make a choice that is both personally and environmentally sound. Current trends suggest that an exponentially increasing number are.
I have much more respect for those (such as the inuit) who are able to harvest their own meat. Most consumers think their Big Mac grew ready made into a frozen patty, and would never be able to personally kill and prepare their meat.
I believe the UN study DOES take in a number of factors, including income disparity, eduction, gender equality and other factors, including economic figures. What country would you rather live in?
As for aboriginals living in deploreable conditions, I blame the many years of government dependancy. If they hadn't learned to rely on the generocity of the government, they no doubt would face a better life. Of course, many would wonder what they have to complain about, contributing little if any tax, but having no problem accepting the meny benefits of modern society.
As virtually the entire world is moving towards capitalism, your prediction of its demise appears very foolish indeed.
