- Capitalism and Alternatives -

Proletarians: stealing from the capitalists

I want to start by saying that there are two parts to this post. The first is parody, and the second seeks to get the debate back to where the whole issue really lies.

Joe is a proletarian as he does not own any of the means of production. So, he goes to work for a capitalist who pays him $10 per hour. If he were to work without this individual's capital he would only produce goods priced at $2 per hour. Thus, Joe steals $8 for every hour he works for the capitalist. Further, he extracts this $8 by threatening to not show up for work. This is called blackmail or coercion. If Joe does not work then the capitalist might be forced to work. Joe's physical/material action (for Nikhil: this is definitely subject to the Second Law of Thermodynamics) was the causal action that forced the capitalist to labor using his own means of production.

Do I believe the above version? Absolutely not. Implicit in the above is the assumption that value has any relation whatsoever to price. Value in an overall sense relates solely to pure metaphysical conjectures and, while academically interesting, has no basis for any sort of social science. Value is pure metaphysical speculation.

The real issue here is the method by which society allocates the means of production. So, let's get off this trippy metaphysical 'value' bullshit and analyze the pros and cons of different methods of such allocation. This point, really, was the whole reason Marx advocated an objective value system based upon the price brought by workers for their labor.

Any takers on giving me a reason why the means of production should be publicly owned without resorting to some ethereal metaphysical ramblings?

Follow Ups:

• Hard to tell the difference between your parody and your argument vox February 14 1999 (1)
  • You're right, I don't subscribe to theories 150 years outdated Joel Jacobson none USA February 15 1999 (0)
• Norman McKinley-Watson III Red Deathy Socialist Party Uk February 10 1999 (5)
  • King Joel the First Joel Jacobson none USA February 11 1999 (4)
    • Deathy the only...Thankfully... Red Deathy Socialist Party UK February 11 1999 (3)
      • The Second? Oops, no I'm still the same person. Joel Jacobson with multiple personality disorders USA February 12 1999 (2)
        • Unfortunately... Red Deathy Socialist party UK February 15 1999 (1)
          • What you are really arguing about L December 04 1999 (0)
• Parodying Marx? Samuel Day Fassbinder Citizens for Mustard Greens USA February 10 1999 (10)
  • No. Just Defending Evolution Joel Jacobson Parodies R Us USA February 11 1999 (9)
    • Shoe Menders... Red Deathy Socialist Party UK February 14 1999 (1)
      • Mending the historical analysis Joel Jacobson none USA February 15 1999 (0)
    • Joel Is Defending His Opinions Again Samuel Day Fassbinder Citizens for Mustard Greens USA February 11 1999 (6)
      • Are you even following this conversation? Joel Jacobson none USA February 12 1999 (5)
        • Blah blah blah Samuel Day Fassbinder Citizens for Mustard Greens USA February 12 1999 (4)
          • . . . Yes, this is the measure of most of your arguments Joel Jacobson none USA February 14 1999 (3)
            • Let's look at this closely..... Quincunx IWW February 15 1999 (0)
            • More Blah Blah Blah Samuel Day Fassbinder USA February 15 1999 (1)
              • Again, again.... Red Deathy Socialist Party UK February 15 1999 (0)
• 4 pragmatic reasons for installing socialism Nikhil Jaikumar The PCC MA, USA February 10 1999 (9)
  • Oh. So it's empirical after all, huh? Joel Jacobson none USA February 11 1999 (8)
    • The world's lowest crime rates Nikhil Jaikumar The PCC MA, USA February 11 1999 (7)
      • And . . . Joel Jacobson Criminals R US USa February 12 1999 (6)
        • Sub-subsistence Nikhil Jaikumar The People's Collective Council Massachusetts February 12 1999 (5)
          • One more thing Joel Jacobson none USA February 15 1999 (1)
            • Joel needs to learn some science Quincunx IWW February 16 1999 (0)
          • Um, you only answered on one topic, though. Joel Jacobson none USA February 15 1999 (2)
            • All hail FREEDOM. Eugen Sofronov Sheridan College CANADA November 22 1999 (0)
            • If you insist... Nikhil Jaikumar The People's Collective Council MA, USA February 16 1999 (0)